Occasionally, I check out the Vaccines forum at Mothering.com. There are all sorts of varying points of view, but more importantly there are great links to government sites where you can read things that aren't generally written for the public--in other words, they're not dumbed down, or written to scare people into compliance with certain public health agendas. They are minutes from meetings, or information compiled for doctors (the CDC Pink Book for example).
You can read the source material yourself and see what you can glean from it all.
I came across this
link in a woman's signature at the bottom of her post. It is a set of meeting minutes from the
fda.gov site from a workshop for government agencies dealing with infected animal tissues which are used to grow diseases which are then harvested and used to make vaccines. Whew--did you get that? Monkey kidneys, the sides of calves, eggs have all been used to grow diseases. This workshop speaks to contaminants (adventitious agents) in the cells of monkey kidneys, the sides of calves and eggs that inadvertently get mixed into the vaccines themselves.
A well known contaminant is
SV40. It was a monkey virus that was in polio vaccine for years and years before anyone realized it was in there. It has shown up in various cancerous tumors even now. Millions of people were exposed to this monkey virus through vaccination.
This workshop speaks to trying to control these kinds of contaminants.
Let's read some together, shall we? I'll have the minutes in blue so you can differentiate between what they said and what I will say. After you read this post, you might want to go and check out the
original minutes from the meeting for yourself.
Welcome:
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE
FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
CENTER FOR BIOLOGICS EVALUATION AND RESEARCH
INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR BIOLOGICALS
NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND
INFECTIOUS DISEASES
NATIONAL VACCINE PROGRAM OFFICE
WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION
+ + + + +
EVOLVING SCIENTIFIC AND REGULATORY PERSPECTIVES ON
CELL SUBSTRATES FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT
+ + + + +
WORKSHOP
+ + + +
Friday,
10 September 1999
A Dr. Phil Minor was introduced to open up the meeting and to give an overview of the issues involving cell substrates in vaccine production.
10 I would like to introduce the first
11 speaker, Dr. Phil Minor, from the National Institute
12 of Biological Standards and Control, who will be
13 giving us an introduction to adventitious agent
14 issues, both reviewing the past and current experience
15 with adventitious agent contamination of biologicals
16 in vaccines.
17 DR. MINOR: Thanks. Thanks very much.
18 Can I have the slide on, please, or do I just press it
19 here?
20 What I am going to do is to review firstly
21 all of biologicals, if you like, from an adventitious
22 agent point of view. So it won't just be vaccines.
23 In particular, I will be talking about the range of
24 source materials that people have used in preparing
25 biologicals. There will be a clear message that comes
5
1 out of that, which is that the more you use well-
2 characterized cells, the better.
3 I will also be talking about the SV40
4 story in some detail, which has been gone through a
5 number of times, but I will be going through it from
6 a particularly regulatory point of view because again,
7 there is a message there which says that if you get it
8 wrong, you will still be working on it 40 years later.
Let's read more.
11 So there are a variety of source materials
12 that you can use if you are preparing biologicals.
13 They are sort of listed here, if you like. There are
14 biological materials which are made from whole
15 animals. That would include things like blood and
16 blood products. I will describe that in a moment. So
17 you can just go to a whole animal and take something
18 out and make your biological from that.
19 You can use your whole animal as a
20 substrate for growth. I will discuss that in the
21 context of things like influenza vaccines and the
22 like.
23 You can grow material on primary cells.
24 This was the main starting point for things like polio
25 vaccines in the early days, where the SV40 issue
6
1 arose. Finally, you can grow materials on well-
2 characterized cell preparation.
3 The further down the list you go on this
4 thing, probably the happier you are from the
5 adventitious agent point of view.
6 This shows some examples of contaminants
7 which have arisen when whole animals have been used as
8 source materials or the origin of the source material.
9 Most of these will be human rather than anything else,
10 but really an awful lot of the serious adventitious
11 agent problems that have arisen have arisen because of
12 materials sourced from whole animals or using pooled
13 preparation.
My take away at this very early point in the presentation is acknowledgment of problems in vaccine production. Carry on.
14 The first one on this list here is CJD,
15 Creutzfeldt Jakob Disease, which was transmitted by
16 growth hormone. The growth hormone was produced from
17 human cadaveric material. A very unpleasant disease.
18 It's almost impossible to detect the agent other than
19 by standing back and waiting for the incubation period
20 to go.
21 In France, there are still a large number
22 of cases coming through as a result of this. It may
23 well be that around 10 percent are recipients of
24 human-derived growth hormone, will actually wind up
25 going down with CJD in France.
Whoa, whoa whoa! Hold on a minute. A disease is passed on to people in France from growth hormone which was derived from producing it in human
cadaveric material. "A very unpleasant disease." he said. "Almost impossible to detect the agent other than by standing back and waiting for the incubation period to go." You can't detect it except after the people have it?!? Around 10% of people receiving growth hormone in France will come down with this disease?!
Huh. Sounds a little sloppy. Let's continue.
6 Scrapie was first shown to be a
7 transmissible agent by the use of a TBE vaccine, which
8 was grown in the brains of sheep. TBE being tick-
9 borne encephalitis, which then transmitted scrapie to
10 a large number of the sheep that were actually
11 inoculated with it. So again, this is a whole animal
12 source material, if you like, that had quite serious
13 consequences, especially if you were a sheep.
Good one doc, "...especially if you were a sheep." Ha, ha.Back to humans.14 Over the last 15 or 20 years or so, one of
15 the best examples of serious or disease-causing
16 transmissions of infectious agents has been through
17 human blood and blood-derived materials, clotting
18 factors in particular. In all of these things, the
19 entire alphabet soup of hepatitis viruses has been
20 transmitted by blood product.
21 In the early days at least, some of these
22 were really regarded as really a hazard, if you like,
23 of being a hemophiliac. So, for example, hepatitis C,
24 in the days when there was a non-A, non-B hepatitis,
25 it was really regarded as an inevitable consequence of
8
1 using factor 8 to treat hemophilia. I am not sure
2 that that is an acceptable way of actually doing
3 things any more. I am sure that hemophiliacs would
4 agree with that. B-19, paravirus B-19 is still
5 transmitted by clotting factors.
Continuing on...6 Finally, this one down at the bottom here
7 is a classic example of a transmission by a vaccine,
8 if you like, where hepatitis B was transmitted by
9 yellow fever vaccine back in the 1940s. The hepatitis
10 B actually came from the stabilizers of the albumin
11 that was actually put in there to keep it stable.
12 There is a story that Fred McCallum, who
13 is head of the Public Health Service in the United
14 Kingdom tells to the effect that he basically won the
15 war because he prevented Winston Churchill having a
16 yellow fever vaccine when he was going off to talk
17 with Stalin around 1944.
18 So most of the serious consequences really
19 come from whole animal source materials, if you like.
20 You can use whole animals as substrates. I'm using
21 the term "whole animals" in a fairly broad sense.
22 Eggs in the definition of the Animal Regulated Use Act
23 in the United Kingdom count as an animal because they
24 are embryonated.
Yikes. Glad Churchill skipped that vaccine too. Albumin are the egg whites that were in there. Let's continue.25 For many years, rabies vaccines were
9
1 produced in mouse brain or sheep brain. They have
2 quite serious consequences, but not necessarily
3 associated with adventitial agents. You can get
4 encephalitis as a result of immune responses to the
5 non-invasic protein.
Wait. Wait just a minute. Hold it right there. "You can get encephalitis as a result of immune responses to the non-invasic protein." The protein that's in there can cause encephalitis?! Not some additional contaminant causing it?! (Adventitial agents. Unknown pathogens that are present in the cell lines that are used to produce vaccines and that can become part of the final vaccine.) Your body's natural immune response can bring on the encephalitis?!I wonder if there are other proteins in other vaccines that can cause this kind of response. Hmmm.Do they still use mouse brains?6 The Japanese encephalitis vaccine, which
7 is used for travelers in the United Kingdom, is still
8 made in mouse brain. So it's not an unusual source of
9 material, if you like. Smallpox for a long time was
10 made on the scarified flanks of calves. Like I said,
11 isn't any more. However, while these things seem
12 really quite primitive, in terms of how you make
13 vaccines nowadays, you still have a number of vaccines
14 that are made in eggs. Yellow fever is the classic
15 example, and influenza.
Reading on...4 Influenza is an actuated vaccine. Again,
5 it's not made on SPF eggs, that is, specified
6 pathogen-free eggs. They are avian leukosis free, but
7 they are not free of all the other variety of
8 pathogens that you would choose to screen for measles
9 vaccine production system, for example.
10 So even today then you have to bear in
11 mind that a large amount of vaccine that's made is
12 made on really quite crude materials, from an
13 adventitious agent point of view. It's not a trivial
14 usage. In fact, when you go through and consider what
15 vaccines are actually made on these days, they are
16 quite primitive, if you like, in some respects.
What are SPFs? What's that you say? It means Specified Pathogen Free? So if a vaccine is made from eggs that are not SPF it means that there may be pathogens in there?! "It's not a trivial usage." The doctor said. Meaning, a LOT of vaccines are made on materials where they don't know whether there are any harmful pathogens in there or not... The doctor continued, "In fact, when you go through and consider what vaccines are actually made on these days, they are quite primitive, if you like, in some respects." Huh, ya think?! Yeah, I've got to agree on this one. It sounds like a noxious witches brew. (Not to offend Wiccans. I think they would use some nice herbs or something. Nothing noxious...)"Oh, but that's crazy." you're thinking. Yep, it is.Onward to SV40.
24 SV40 is one that I'm going to talk about
25 in some detail in a minute. This was in polio
11
1 vaccines in the 1950s and very early 1960s, probably,
2 a source from rhesus monkey kidney. Polio vaccines
3 are still made on monkey kidney, though they are not
4 usually on rhesus monkey kidney. It would be
5 cynomologous or something like that, for reasons which
6 I'll describe in a moment.
7 Nonetheless, a great deal of vaccine is
8 still made in primary monkey kidney cells. There are
9 reasons for that. There's a deep conservatism I think
10 about changing the vaccine production process if you
11 have a vaccine that works, largely because you are
12 dealing with a prophylactic material rather than a
13 therapeutic material. So you don't want to mess about
14 with anything if it's reasonably safe and effective.
OK. So no one wants to change things that they think are working. Some might argue about the whole "reasonably safe and effective" thing, in light of SV40. Nonetheless, let's hear you explain about SV40 *cough, harmful, cough*--let's hear more about that. But before that, let's hear about some other problems first.15 I'll mention very briefly the defective
16 retrovirus story in chick embryos. I think Jim
17 Robertson will probably mention this in more detail,
18 but I will mention that just as I go by. Finally
19 recently, the FDA released a talk paper on a
20 preparation of urokinase, which is used in treating
21 the heart. This material was grown from primary
22 cultures made from aborted fetuses. I think it was
23 aborted fetuses or miscarriages, or whatever. There
24 were quite a variety of infectious agents were
25 actually found in this. I believe this one has now
12
1 been suspended.
Ah!! Suspended one because, "There were quite a variety of infectious agents were actually found in this." Great. But, what about the infections that aren't found right away, like SV40? What's your point here?2 The point is that there are still a large
3 number of materials which are made on really quite
4 basic culture systems, if you like, where adventitious
5 agents are a serious consideration, if you like. So
6 it's not all continuous cell lines versus the rest.
7 I mean there are -- most of the vaccines that are made
8 in the world probably come from other primary cultures
9 or eggs or things of that nature.
"Primary cultures"? Oh you mean animals and animal parts where infectious agents can get mixed in? Wait, I skipped that part. Let's look again:
17 Primary cultures as been described
18 previously around here, are really cultures that are
19 made directly from the animal. So they are not one
20 pass. They are directly from the animal, if you like.
21 Here are a number of examples where agents are
22 actually being found or at least located in these kind
23 of cultures.
And you said that, "most of the vaccines that are made in the world probably come from other primary cultures or eggs or things of that nature." Well, I see why that would be a concern, certainly. Animals and eggs have their own viruses and infections and they just get mixed into the vaccines don't they?Tell us about SV40. 10 I will now talk about SV40. I'm sure in
11 this audience there are people who know far more about
12 SV40 than I do. But nonetheless, I'll talk about this
13 from what you might call the regulatory adventitious
14 agent point of view, if you like.
15 So it's a very common polyoma virus of old
16 world monkeys, and particularly rhesus macaques. The
17 difficulty with this was that when the rhesus macaque
18 monkeys are sacrificed and a primary monkey kidney
19 culture is made from him or her, as the case may be,
20 a silent infection is set up. So there is on evidence
21 of infection just by looking at the cultures. In
22 fact, these cultures can throw out as much SV40 as
23 they do polio, when you start infecting it with polio.
24 So you wind up with a culture that's just stiff with
25 adventitious agent which you really don't want.
13
1 It's able to transform non simian cells in
2 vitro, and it can be tumorigenic if you have the right
3 kind of animal that you put it into. Between 55 and
4 62, probably at least a third of all the vaccines that
5 were made on these kind of cultures, because they were
6 pooled and the like, were almost certainly
7 contaminated with SV40. It wasn't a trivial
8 contamination. It was really quite a serious
9 contamination.
10 Because it was mainly an activated polio
11 vaccine, there wouldn't have been that much live SV40
12 in it perhaps. But SV40 is more resistant to formalin
13 than polio is. So almost everybody who received the
14 shot of inactivated polio in the 1950s, which would
15 include me, would have received live SV40 in some form
16 or another.
17 So the concern is really summarized here,
18 which is basically that everybody, I mean this is my
19 own take on it, that everybody -- I mean you can argue
20 that it might not have been sort of everybody, but I
21 think it probably was. But almost everybody who
22 received the full course of polio vaccine between 1955
23 and 1965, also got live SV40 stuck into them. That's
24 millions of people basically.
Wow. That sounds awful. An entire generation exposed to Sv40. I wonder if there was some kind of carcinogenic effect with that additional monkey virus. Was there? Surely vaccine safety standards would have ensured that that was studied for years and years.
25 There were epidemiological studies that
14
1 were done at the time which really didn't cause much
2 concern, but they can all be criticized. Some of the
3 studies were really quite short-term, about two or
4 three years or so, looking to see if there were cancer
5 effects basically, as a result of SV40. It may be
6 that two or three years is not enough to actually find
7 such an effect, if it actually exists.
Such adverse conditions may not show up for years and years afterwards? But, vaccines have no long term studies like that... 16 So while the studies were reassuring, the
17 most reassuring thing was that there was no sudden
18 surge of cancers that you can actually trace back to
19 polio vaccine usage in the United States or in Europe
20 where these things were used in a big way. So it
21 really did seem that in the long term, over about 19
22 to 20 years, there was no real cause for alarm.
OK. So maybe a little monkey virus between friends is no big deal. No problem! Wait, what?23 However, in 1992, Michaili Carboni and
24 colleagues and others, a number of others, including
25 Janet Butelle down in Texas and the like, identified
15
1 SV40 sequences which were present in a variety of
2 relatively rare tumors. So mysathelia, which is the
3 asbestos tumor, osteosarcomas, pendymonas, actually
4 the young chorioid plexus tumors of children, these
5 sequences do appear to be genuine SV40 sequences.
6 Where they come from is really not quite
7 clear. Part of the argument was that you could get
8 similar types of tumors in experimental animals, like
9 hamsters. I think that is probably the only example
10 where a hamster is cited as a good model for a human
11 being perhaps. But who knows? In fact, this might
12 actually be an argument that this has got nothing to
13 do with it.
14 So the question then arises as to where
15 did the SV40 sequences come from. Of course the
16 classic response really would have been it must have
17 come from the polio vaccine because why not?
Say, I have a question--how did SV40 cancer causing monkey virus show up in kids if the contaminated polio was discovered in the early 60's? How is it effecting kids and giving them cancer? You did change the monkeys to the ones without SV40, right? Let's read.18 Now SV40 was discovered around 1961 or
19 1962 or thereabouts, 1960 perhaps. Directly it was
20 discouraged. There were precautions put in place to
21 exclude it from polio vaccines, because it was known
22 to be a tumor kind of virus, if you like. These were
23 the kind of things that were put in place. They are
24 listed in WHO requirements from about 1962 onwards.
25 They reached their final fully flowered form, if you
16
1 like, by about 1965. A number of countries certainly
2 had put this in place before that.
3 The first thing you can do is to use
4 seronegative animals as the source of cells. So you
5 can use animals that have no evidence of SV40
6 infection as your source. That really is something
7 which is now very firmly in place, which manufacturers
8 now do.
Good. We're listening. Continue.9 The second thing is, you remember I said
10 that it was the rhesus macaques with the problems.
11 The problem was that the cell cultures didn't show any
12 sign of having defect, when they were actually
13 infected with SV40. What you can do then is you can
14 use species, such as cynomolgus or pattus monkeys,
15 where the primary monkey kidney culture cell, when
16 infected with SV40, will actually wrinkle up and die
17 on you. So at least you know you have got something
18 nasty and you can throw it away.
19 Finally, you can test your control of
20 production cultures for SV40 by the same kind of
21 procedure. That is why using sesetral cells to see if
22 anything comes through.
Gotcha. Go on.23 Around the period that this was taking
24 place, wild caught monkeys were being used extensively
25 in vaccine production. Up to a half of the cultures
17
1 would have been thrown away because of adventitious
2 agent contamination, mainly foamy virus, but certainly
3 other things as well. I think that just illustrates
4 the kind of lack of control, if you like, over the
5 source materials that was going on, and the extent to
6 which adventitious agents are really a serious problem
7 in finding monkey kidney cultures or primary cultures
8 in general.
Yeah, I again have to agree with you--it all sounds sloppy and impossible to control. But, I'm not a doctor--what do I know?!9 An alternative way of doing this is to
10 actually use a validated cell bank. Certainly many
11 manufacturers use MRC5, and Mary of course used vira
12 cells, as we heard last night.
13 Nonetheless, a significant, if indeed not
14 a large proportion of the world's supply of polio
15 vaccine is still made on primary monkey kidney cells,
16 which should really fit this kind of criteria for
17 excluding SV40.
18 One of the questions that then arises is
19 were these precautions good enough? What we did at
20 NIBSC, because we happened to have about 150-odd
21 batches of vaccine archived from the years, was to go
22 back and look at them by PCR. PCR of course is the
23 cat's pajamas. It's really the best technique that
24 anybody ever invented in terms of sensitivity. It's
25 probably about as good as infectivity, at least in our
18
1 hands anyway.
2 But nonetheless, we went back and we
3 looked by PCR at 133 preparations of polio vaccine
4 which had been used in the United Kingdom between 1966
5 and about 1997. What we had done was looked at all
6 batches of vaccine which had been used since 1980, and
7 all of those were free of SV40 sequences. So that
8 gives you some reassurance that these precautions were
9 actually appropriate.
10 In fact, the only preparation which had
11 any SV40 sequence in it at all was a seed virus which
12 was used by a manufacturer for making vaccine from.
13 The amount that was in there was around two logs worth
14 of genome as opposed to seven logs of genomes in a
15 really full-fledged infected preparation. So there
16 wasn't that much in there. The manufacturer had also
17 treated this stuff with toluidine blue, which is
18 supposed to kill of SV40. This was done on the advice
19 of Albert Sabin back in 1960-something or other.
20 But nonetheless, it does seem to me that
21 it's rather a foolish thing to have a seed that's got
22 SV40 sequences in it at all. I think the WHO
23 requirements have now been changed so the seed has to
24 be checked to see if it does have SV40 sequences in
25 it or not.
You think it's foolish for the seed virus to have SV40 in it--even if it's a little, teeny, tiny bit?Tell us more about the kids and their cancer. If there was no more SV40, how did they get it?1 This particular seed was not infectious
2 SV40. We did some quite serious studies on it, like
3 transvecting the DNA into cells to see if it would
4 work, infecting monkeys with it to see if we could
5 actually get seroconversion. There was no
6 seroconversion. So there was no infectious virus
7 there that we could actually detect. But nonetheless,
8 the seed did have material in it.
9 If on the other hand you look at materials
10 from around the 1960s or from other parts of the world
11 a little bit later than that, you can pick up SV40
12 sequences quite easily. So the method would have
13 picked it up had it been there.
14 So our conclusion from that was then that
15 really as soon as these kind of precautions were put
16 in place, no SV40 would have been present in all polio
17 vaccines used, at least in the United Kingdom and I
18 would guess in the United States as well, because it's
19 after the same kind of precautions were put in place.
20 So the precautions were adequate. Which means that
21 SV40 exposure of the population through polio vaccines
22 would have stopped around 1962.
23 So what you then have is the problem of
24 the chorioid plexus and appendinoma tumors, which
25 occur in children who are around two years of age or
20
1 maybe less. You have to say well how did they get a
2 hold of the SV40 sequences? One possibility, which is
3 mooted with some enthusiasm is that maybe you are
4 getting passage of SV40 from parents who did receive
5 the SV40 contaminated polio vaccine to their children.
What?! Are you telling me that it's possible that parents who were infected with SV40 in the polio vaccine that they got before the early 60's could be passing it down to their kids?6 So how this stuff gets around is quite important.
7 One of the things that we have been
8 involved in is doing serological surveys of
9 populations to see who has got SV40 antibodies and who
10 hasn't. It is about a five percent seropositivity by
11 the assay that we're using at least. It seems to peak
12 at around age 10 or thereabouts, and doesn't arise
13 after that.
14 So what you could argue then is that you
15 are seeing vertical transmission from parents down to
16 their children.
Vertical transmission? Where a mother passes on an infection while the baby is in utero? It's continuing to another generation? Cancer causing monkey viruses are being passed from generation to generation? What other known or unknown infections, viruses or other contaminants will be passed from generation to generation?2 The point about this long story which I
3 have just been telling you about SV40 is that SV40 was
4 a problem between 1955 and 1962, and it's now 1999,
5 and we still don't really know what was going on.
Yeah, that seems patently obvious...So
6 if you actually make a mistake, it's really quite
7 serious. It may keep you occupied for the rest of
8 your working life.
9 One last quick thing or two last slides
10 here. One is about reverse transcriptase of vaccines.
11 Dr. Schuepbach will be talking later and Jim Robertson
12 will be talking in a moment about detection of reverse
13 transcriptase in chicken cell grown vaccines, such as
14 flu or yellow fever or measles, mumps, rubella.
15 This appears to be due to the presence of
16 defective non-infectious particles. There are
17 sequences from EAV and ALV both in these things, a
18 ratio of about nine to one as I understand it. It
19 does seem to me that you are not really quite sure
20 what the AV sequence is in there and what ALV sequence
21 is in there. It's probably going to vary from chicken
22 to chicken in so far as these chickens have not been
23 bred. In other words, every egg is a new experiment.
24 You are really not quite sure what you are dealing
25 with in that. I think that is quite an unfortunate
23
1 position to be in. I'm not sure how you control it.
I'm not sure what "reverse transcriptase" is. It doesn't sound good and the doctor explained it's involved with chicken cell grown vaccines: flu, yellow fever, measels, mumps and rubella. As he said, "In other words, every egg is a new experiment. You are really not quite sure what you are dealing with in that. I think that is quite an unfortunate position to be in. I'm not sure how you control it."It doesn't sound to me like any of these vaccines grown and harvested on living animal tissues or cadaveric tissues is controlled or understood very well. Of course I'm not a doctor, but I just read the words of one--he sounds concerned.2 Finally, this is my last slide, and this
3 has to do with characterized cells. The issues that
4 I have been dealing with really have been to do with
5 primary cells and primary cell problems where the
6 virus comes in direct from the animal origin. I think
7 there is no doubt in my mind that that's the main
8 source of concern in terms of human health.
9 Nonetheless, there are clearly problems
10 which also arise with characterized cells and the
11 continuous cell lines, in particular. We have some
12 down here.
13 Now the regulatory authorities in the room
14 will be well aware of a large number of other examples
15 of this type which don't actually get published. I
16 think that's not so good. I think this stuff really
17 should be out there in the public literature.
Wow, "...a large number of other examples of this type which don't actually get published." A large number? How big a problem is this? Why don't they get published...
I'm glad to help out. I'm spreading the word here. You can count on me.That was all the presentation of Dr. Minor. If you look at the index, I N D E X
SPEAKER PAGE
Philip Minor, Ph.D. 4
James Robertson, Ph.D. 32
Jorg Schuepbach, M.D. 51
Jens Mayer, Ph.D. 66
Thomas Broker, Ph.D. 78
Neil Cashman, M.D. 102
Panel Discussion 129
Dr. Onions, Chair
John Sedivy, Ph.D. 176
Frits Fallaux, Ph.D. 199
Panel Discussion 212
Dr. Coffin, Chair
you see that it continues on for some time. I didn't read the rest. I'm going to. You might take a look at it too.This is all public record. Not surprisingly, it is not the kind of thing that's included in the flu vaccine public service announcements I've seen recently. They're not talking about flu vaccines being produced from eggs that may or may not have viruses that may or may not be harmful to humans when injected into their blood streams that may or may not be transmitted vertically to the next generation. It just doesn't come up.Maybe it should.
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