Tuesday, March 17, 2009

Who's up for Some Light Reading? Adventitious Agents in Vaccines

Occasionally, I check out the Vaccines forum at Mothering.com. There are all sorts of varying points of view, but more importantly there are great links to government sites where you can read things that aren't generally written for the public--in other words, they're not dumbed down, or written to scare people into compliance with certain public health agendas. They are minutes from meetings, or information compiled for doctors (the CDC Pink Book for example).

You can read the source material yourself and see what you can glean from it all.

I came across this link in a woman's signature at the bottom of her post. It is a set of meeting minutes from the fda.gov site from a workshop for government agencies dealing with infected animal tissues which are used to grow diseases which are then harvested and used to make vaccines. Whew--did you get that? Monkey kidneys, the sides of calves, eggs have all been used to grow diseases. This workshop speaks to contaminants (adventitious agents) in the cells of monkey kidneys, the sides of calves and eggs that inadvertently get mixed into the vaccines themselves.

A well known contaminant is SV40. It was a monkey virus that was in polio vaccine for years and years before anyone realized it was in there. It has shown up in various cancerous tumors even now. Millions of people were exposed to this monkey virus through vaccination.

This workshop speaks to trying to control these kinds of contaminants.

Let's read some together, shall we? I'll have the minutes in blue so you can differentiate between what they said and what I will say. After you read this post, you might want to go and check out the original minutes from the meeting for yourself.










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10 September 1999

A Dr. Phil Minor was introduced to open up the meeting and to give an overview of the issues involving cell substrates in vaccine production.

10                I would like to introduce the first

11 speaker, Dr. Phil Minor, from the National Institute

12 of Biological Standards and Control, who will be

13 giving us an introduction to adventitious agent

14 issues, both reviewing the past and current experience

15 with adventitious agent contamination of biologicals

16 in vaccines.

17 DR. MINOR: Thanks. Thanks very much.

18 Can I have the slide on, please, or do I just press it

19 here?

20 What I am going to do is to review firstly

21 all of biologicals, if you like, from an adventitious

22 agent point of view. So it won't just be vaccines.

23 In particular, I will be talking about the range of

24 source materials that people have used in preparing

25 biologicals. There will be a clear message that comes


1 out of that, which is that the more you use well-

2 characterized cells, the better.

3 I will also be talking about the SV40

4 story in some detail, which has been gone through a

5 number of times, but I will be going through it from

6 a particularly regulatory point of view because again,

7 there is a message there which says that if you get it

8 wrong, you will still be working on it 40 years later.

Let's read more.

11 So there are a variety of source materials

12 that you can use if you are preparing biologicals.

13 They are sort of listed here, if you like. There are

14 biological materials which are made from whole

15 animals. That would include things like blood and

16 blood products. I will describe that in a moment. So

17 you can just go to a whole animal and take something

18 out and make your biological from that.

19 You can use your whole animal as a

20 substrate for growth. I will discuss that in the

21 context of things like influenza vaccines and the

22 like.

23 You can grow material on primary cells.

24 This was the main starting point for things like polio

25 vaccines in the early days, where the SV40 issue


1 arose. Finally, you can grow materials on well-

2 characterized cell preparation.

3 The further down the list you go on this

4 thing, probably the happier you are from the

5 adventitious agent point of view.

6 This shows some examples of contaminants

7 which have arisen when whole animals have been used as

8 source materials or the origin of the source material.

9 Most of these will be human rather than anything else,

10 but really an awful lot of the serious adventitious

11 agent problems that have arisen have arisen because of

12 materials sourced from whole animals or using pooled

13 preparation.

My take away at this very early point in the presentation is acknowledgment of problems in vaccine production. Carry on.

14                The first one on this list here is CJD,

15 Creutzfeldt Jakob Disease, which was transmitted by

16 growth hormone. The growth hormone was produced from

17 human cadaveric material. A very unpleasant disease.

18 It's almost impossible to detect the agent other than

19 by standing back and waiting for the incubation period

20 to go.

21 In France, there are still a large number

22 of cases coming through as a result of this. It may

23 well be that around 10 percent are recipients of

24 human-derived growth hormone, will actually wind up

25 going down with CJD in France.

Whoa, whoa whoa! Hold on a minute. A disease is passed on to people in France from growth hormone which was derived from producing it in human cadaveric material. "A very unpleasant disease." he said. "Almost impossible to detect the agent other than by standing back and waiting for the incubation period to go." You can't detect it except after the people have it?!? Around 10% of people receiving growth hormone in France will come down with this disease?!

Huh. Sounds a little sloppy. Let's continue.

6 Scrapie was first shown to be a

7 transmissible agent by the use of a TBE vaccine, which

8 was grown in the brains of sheep. TBE being tick-

9 borne encephalitis, which then transmitted scrapie to

10 a large number of the sheep that were actually

11 inoculated with it. So again, this is a whole animal

12 source material, if you like, that had quite serious

13 consequences, especially if you were a sheep.

Good one doc, "...especially if you were a sheep." Ha, ha.

Back to humans.

14                Over the last 15 or 20 years or so, one of

15 the best examples of serious or disease-causing

16 transmissions of infectious agents has been through

17 human blood and blood-derived materials, clotting

18 factors in particular. In all of these things, the

19 entire alphabet soup of hepatitis viruses has been

20 transmitted by blood product.

21 In the early days at least, some of these

22 were really regarded as really a hazard, if you like,

23 of being a hemophiliac. So, for example, hepatitis C,

24 in the days when there was a non-A, non-B hepatitis,

25 it was really regarded as an inevitable consequence of


1 using factor 8 to treat hemophilia. I am not sure

2 that that is an acceptable way of actually doing

3 things any more. I am sure that hemophiliacs would

4 agree with that. B-19, paravirus B-19 is still

5 transmitted by clotting factors.

Continuing on...

6                Finally, this one down at the bottom here

7 is a classic example of a transmission by a vaccine,

8 if you like, where hepatitis B was transmitted by

9 yellow fever vaccine back in the 1940s. The hepatitis

10 B actually came from the stabilizers of the albumin

11 that was actually put in there to keep it stable.

12 There is a story that Fred McCallum, who

13 is head of the Public Health Service in the United

14 Kingdom tells to the effect that he basically won the

15 war because he prevented Winston Churchill having a

16 yellow fever vaccine when he was going off to talk

17 with Stalin around 1944.

18 So most of the serious consequences really

19 come from whole animal source materials, if you like.

20 You can use whole animals as substrates. I'm using

21 the term "whole animals" in a fairly broad sense.

22 Eggs in the definition of the Animal Regulated Use Act

23 in the United Kingdom count as an animal because they

24 are embryonated.

Yikes. Glad Churchill skipped that vaccine too. Albumin are the egg whites that were in there. Let's continue.

25                For many years, rabies vaccines were


1 produced in mouse brain or sheep brain. They have

2 quite serious consequences, but not necessarily

3 associated with adventitial agents. You can get

4 encephalitis as a result of immune responses to the

5 non-invasic protein.

Wait. Wait just a minute. Hold it right there. "You can get encephalitis as a result of immune responses to the non-invasic protein." The protein that's in there can cause encephalitis?! Not some additional contaminant causing it?! (Adventitial agents. Unknown pathogens that are present in the cell lines that are used to produce vaccines and that can become part of the final vaccine.) Your body's natural immune response can bring on the encephalitis?!

I wonder if there are other proteins in other vaccines that can cause this kind of response. Hmmm.

Do they still use mouse brains?

6                The Japanese  encephalitis vaccine, which

7 is used for travelers in the United Kingdom, is still

8 made in mouse brain. So it's not an unusual source of

9 material, if you like. Smallpox for a long time was

10 made on the scarified flanks of calves. Like I said,

11 isn't any more. However, while these things seem

12 really quite primitive, in terms of how you make

13 vaccines nowadays, you still have a number of vaccines

14 that are made in eggs. Yellow fever is the classic

15 example, and influenza.

Reading on...

4                Influenza is an actuated vaccine.  Again,

5 it's not made on SPF eggs, that is, specified

6 pathogen-free eggs. They are avian leukosis free, but

7 they are not free of all the other variety of

8 pathogens that you would choose to screen for measles

9 vaccine production system, for example.

10 So even today then you have to bear in

11 mind that a large amount of vaccine that's made is

12 made on really quite crude materials, from an

13 adventitious agent point of view. It's not a trivial

14 usage. In fact, when you go through and consider what

15 vaccines are actually made on these days, they are

16 quite primitive, if you like, in some respects.

What are SPFs? What's that you say? It means Specified Pathogen Free? So if a vaccine is made from eggs that are not SPF it means that there may be pathogens in there?! "It's not a trivial usage." The doctor said. Meaning, a LOT of vaccines are made on materials where they don't know whether there are any harmful pathogens in there or not... The doctor continued, "In fact, when you go through and consider what vaccines are actually made on these days, they are quite primitive, if you like, in some respects." Huh, ya think?! Yeah, I've got to agree on this one. It sounds like a noxious witches brew. (Not to offend Wiccans. I think they would use some nice herbs or something. Nothing noxious...)

"Oh, but that's crazy." you're thinking. Yep, it is.

Onward to SV40.

24                SV40 is one that I'm going to talk about

25 in some detail in a minute. This was in polio


1 vaccines in the 1950s and very early 1960s, probably,

2 a source from rhesus monkey kidney. Polio vaccines

3 are still made on monkey kidney, though they are not

4 usually on rhesus monkey kidney. It would be

5 cynomologous or something like that, for reasons which

6 I'll describe in a moment.

7 Nonetheless, a great deal of vaccine is

8 still made in primary monkey kidney cells. There are

9 reasons for that. There's a deep conservatism I think

10 about changing the vaccine production process if you

11 have a vaccine that works, largely because you are

12 dealing with a prophylactic material rather than a

13 therapeutic material. So you don't want to mess about

14 with anything if it's reasonably safe and effective.

OK. So no one wants to change things that they think are working. Some might argue about the whole "reasonably safe and effective" thing, in light of SV40. Nonetheless, let's hear you explain about SV40 *cough, harmful, cough*--let's hear more about that. But before that, let's hear about some other problems first.

15                I'll mention very briefly the defective

16 retrovirus story in chick embryos. I think Jim

17 Robertson will probably mention this in more detail,

18 but I will mention that just as I go by. Finally

19 recently, the FDA released a talk paper on a

20 preparation of urokinase, which is used in treating

21 the heart. This material was grown from primary

22 cultures made from aborted fetuses. I think it was

23 aborted fetuses or miscarriages, or whatever. There

24 were quite a variety of infectious agents were

25 actually found in this. I believe this one has now


1 been suspended.

Ah!! Suspended one because, "There were quite a variety of infectious agents were actually found in this." Great. But, what about the infections that aren't found right away, like SV40? What's your point here?

2                The point is that there are still a large

3 number of materials which are made on really quite

4 basic culture systems, if you like, where adventitious

5 agents are a serious consideration, if you like. So

6 it's not all continuous cell lines versus the rest.

7 I mean there are -- most of the vaccines that are made

8 in the world probably come from other primary cultures

9 or eggs or things of that nature.

"Primary cultures"? Oh you mean animals and animal parts where infectious agents can get mixed in? Wait, I skipped that part. Let's look again:

17                Primary cultures as been described

18 previously around here, are really cultures that are

19 made directly from the animal. So they are not one

20 pass. They are directly from the animal, if you like.

21 Here are a number of examples where agents are

22 actually being found or at least located in these kind

23 of cultures.

And you said that, "most of the vaccines that are made in the world probably come from other primary cultures or eggs or things of that nature." Well, I see why that would be a concern, certainly. Animals and eggs have their own viruses and infections and they just get mixed into the vaccines don't they?

Tell us about SV40.

10                I will now talk about SV40.  I'm sure in

11 this audience there are people who know far more about

12 SV40 than I do. But nonetheless, I'll talk about this

13 from what you might call the regulatory adventitious

14 agent point of view, if you like.

15 So it's a very common polyoma virus of old

16 world monkeys, and particularly rhesus macaques. The

17 difficulty with this was that when the rhesus macaque

18 monkeys are sacrificed and a primary monkey kidney

19 culture is made from him or her, as the case may be,

20 a silent infection is set up. So there is on evidence

21 of infection just by looking at the cultures. In

22 fact, these cultures can throw out as much SV40 as

23 they do polio, when you start infecting it with polio.

24 So you wind up with a culture that's just stiff with

25 adventitious agent which you really don't want.


1 It's able to transform non simian cells in

2 vitro, and it can be tumorigenic if you have the right

3 kind of animal that you put it into. Between 55 and

4 62, probably at least a third of all the vaccines that

5 were made on these kind of cultures, because they were

6 pooled and the like, were almost certainly

7 contaminated with SV40. It wasn't a trivial

8 contamination. It was really quite a serious

9 contamination.

10 Because it was mainly an activated polio

11 vaccine, there wouldn't have been that much live SV40

12 in it perhaps. But SV40 is more resistant to formalin

13 than polio is. So almost everybody who received the

14 shot of inactivated polio in the 1950s, which would

15 include me, would have received live SV40 in some form

16 or another.

17 So the concern is really summarized here,

18 which is basically that everybody, I mean this is my

19 own take on it, that everybody -- I mean you can argue

20 that it might not have been sort of everybody, but I

21 think it probably was. But almost everybody who

22 received the full course of polio vaccine between 1955

23 and 1965, also got live SV40 stuck into them. That's

24 millions of people basically.

Wow. That sounds awful. An entire generation exposed to Sv40. I wonder if there was some kind of carcinogenic effect with that additional monkey virus. Was there? Surely vaccine safety standards would have ensured that that was studied for years and years.

25 There were epidemiological studies that


1 were done at the time which really didn't cause much

2 concern, but they can all be criticized. Some of the

3 studies were really quite short-term, about two or

4 three years or so, looking to see if there were cancer

5 effects basically, as a result of SV40. It may be

6 that two or three years is not enough to actually find

7 such an effect, if it actually exists.

Such adverse conditions may not show up for years and years afterwards? But, vaccines have no long term studies like that...

16                So while the studies were reassuring, the

17 most reassuring thing was that there was no sudden

18 surge of cancers that you can actually trace back to

19 polio vaccine usage in the United States or in Europe

20 where these things were used in a big way. So it

21 really did seem that in the long term, over about 19

22 to 20 years, there was no real cause for alarm.

OK. So maybe a little monkey virus between friends is no big deal. No problem! Wait, what?

23                However, in 1992, Michaili Carboni and

24 colleagues and others, a number of others, including

25 Janet Butelle down in Texas and the like, identified


1 SV40 sequences which were present in a variety of

2 relatively rare tumors. So mysathelia, which is the

3 asbestos tumor, osteosarcomas, pendymonas, actually

4 the young chorioid plexus tumors of children, these

5 sequences do appear to be genuine SV40 sequences.

6 Where they come from is really not quite

7 clear. Part of the argument was that you could get

8 similar types of tumors in experimental animals, like

9 hamsters. I think that is probably the only example

10 where a hamster is cited as a good model for a human

11 being perhaps. But who knows? In fact, this might

12 actually be an argument that this has got nothing to

13 do with it.

14 So the question then arises as to where

15 did the SV40 sequences come from. Of course the

16 classic response really would have been it must have

17 come from the polio vaccine because why not?

Say, I have a question--how did SV40 cancer causing monkey virus show up in kids if the contaminated polio was discovered in the early 60's? How is it effecting kids and giving them cancer? You did change the monkeys to the ones without SV40, right? Let's read.

18                Now SV40 was discovered around 1961 or

19 1962 or thereabouts, 1960 perhaps. Directly it was

20 discouraged. There were precautions put in place to

21 exclude it from polio vaccines, because it was known

22 to be a tumor kind of virus, if you like. These were

23 the kind of things that were put in place. They are

24 listed in WHO requirements from about 1962 onwards.

25 They reached their final fully flowered form, if you


1 like, by about 1965. A number of countries certainly

2 had put this in place before that.

3 The first thing you can do is to use

4 seronegative animals as the source of cells. So you

5 can use animals that have no evidence of SV40

6 infection as your source. That really is something

7 which is now very firmly in place, which manufacturers

8 now do.

Good. We're listening. Continue.

9                The second thing is, you remember I said

10 that it was the rhesus macaques with the problems.

11 The problem was that the cell cultures didn't show any

12 sign of having defect, when they were actually

13 infected with SV40. What you can do then is you can

14 use species, such as cynomolgus or pattus monkeys,

15 where the primary monkey kidney culture cell, when

16 infected with SV40, will actually wrinkle up and die

17 on you. So at least you know you have got something

18 nasty and you can throw it away.

19 Finally, you can test your control of

20 production cultures for SV40 by the same kind of

21 procedure. That is why using sesetral cells to see if

22 anything comes through.

Gotcha. Go on.

23                Around the period that this was taking

24 place, wild caught monkeys were being used extensively

25 in vaccine production. Up to a half of the cultures


1 would have been thrown away because of adventitious

2 agent contamination, mainly foamy virus, but certainly

3 other things as well. I think that just illustrates

4 the kind of lack of control, if you like, over the

5 source materials that was going on, and the extent to

6 which adventitious agents are really a serious problem

7 in finding monkey kidney cultures or primary cultures

8 in general.

Yeah, I again have to agree with you--it all sounds sloppy and impossible to control. But, I'm not a doctor--what do I know?!

9                An alternative way of doing this is to

10 actually use a validated cell bank. Certainly many

11 manufacturers use MRC5, and Mary of course used vira

12 cells, as we heard last night.

13 Nonetheless, a significant, if indeed not

14 a large proportion of the world's supply of polio

15 vaccine is still made on primary monkey kidney cells,

16 which should really fit this kind of criteria for

17 excluding SV40.

18 One of the questions that then arises is

19 were these precautions good enough? What we did at

20 NIBSC, because we happened to have about 150-odd

21 batches of vaccine archived from the years, was to go

22 back and look at them by PCR. PCR of course is the

23 cat's pajamas. It's really the best technique that

24 anybody ever invented in terms of sensitivity. It's

25 probably about as good as infectivity, at least in our


1 hands anyway.

2 But nonetheless, we went back and we

3 looked by PCR at 133 preparations of polio vaccine

4 which had been used in the United Kingdom between 1966

5 and about 1997. What we had done was looked at all

6 batches of vaccine which had been used since 1980, and

7 all of those were free of SV40 sequences. So that

8 gives you some reassurance that these precautions were

9 actually appropriate.

10 In fact, the only preparation which had

11 any SV40 sequence in it at all was a seed virus which

12 was used by a manufacturer for making vaccine from.

13 The amount that was in there was around two logs worth

14 of genome as opposed to seven logs of genomes in a

15 really full-fledged infected preparation. So there

16 wasn't that much in there. The manufacturer had also

17 treated this stuff with toluidine blue, which is

18 supposed to kill of SV40. This was done on the advice

19 of Albert Sabin back in 1960-something or other.

20 But nonetheless, it does seem to me that

21 it's rather a foolish thing to have a seed that's got

22 SV40 sequences in it at all. I think the WHO

23 requirements have now been changed so the seed has to

24 be checked to see if it does have SV40 sequences in

25 it or not.

You think it's foolish for the seed virus to have SV40 in it--even if it's a little, teeny, tiny bit?

Tell us more about the kids and their cancer. If there was no more SV40, how did they get it?

1                This particular seed was not infectious

2 SV40. We did some quite serious studies on it, like

3 transvecting the DNA into cells to see if it would

4 work, infecting monkeys with it to see if we could

5 actually get seroconversion. There was no

6 seroconversion. So there was no infectious virus

7 there that we could actually detect. But nonetheless,

8 the seed did have material in it.

9 If on the other hand you look at materials

10 from around the 1960s or from other parts of the world

11 a little bit later than that, you can pick up SV40

12 sequences quite easily. So the method would have

13 picked it up had it been there.

14 So our conclusion from that was then that

15 really as soon as these kind of precautions were put

16 in place, no SV40 would have been present in all polio

17 vaccines used, at least in the United Kingdom and I

18 would guess in the United States as well, because it's

19 after the same kind of precautions were put in place.

20 So the precautions were adequate. Which means that

21 SV40 exposure of the population through polio vaccines

22 would have stopped around 1962.

23 So what you then have is the problem of

24 the chorioid plexus and appendinoma tumors, which

25 occur in children who are around two years of age or


1 maybe less. You have to say well how did they get a

2 hold of the SV40 sequences? One possibility, which is

3 mooted with some enthusiasm is that maybe you are

4 getting passage of SV40 from parents who did receive

5 the SV40 contaminated polio vaccine to their children.

What?! Are you telling me that it's possible that parents who were infected with SV40 in the polio vaccine that they got before the early 60's could be passing it down to their kids?

6    So how this stuff gets around is quite important.

7 One of the things that we have been

8 involved in is doing serological surveys of

9 populations to see who has got SV40 antibodies and who

10 hasn't. It is about a five percent seropositivity by

11 the assay that we're using at least. It seems to peak

12 at around age 10 or thereabouts, and doesn't arise

13 after that.

14 So what you could argue then is that you

15 are seeing vertical transmission from parents down to

16 their children.

Vertical transmission? Where a mother passes on an infection while the baby is in utero? It's continuing to another generation? Cancer causing monkey viruses are being passed from generation to generation?

What other known or unknown infections, viruses or other contaminants will be passed from generation to generation?

2                The point about this long story which I

3 have just been telling you about SV40 is that SV40 was

4 a problem between 1955 and 1962, and it's now 1999,

5 and we still don't really know what was going on.

Yeah, that seems patently obvious...


6 if you actually make a mistake, it's really quite

7 serious. It may keep you occupied for the rest of

8 your working life.

9 One last quick thing or two last slides

10 here. One is about reverse transcriptase of vaccines.

11 Dr. Schuepbach will be talking later and Jim Robertson

12 will be talking in a moment about detection of reverse

13 transcriptase in chicken cell grown vaccines, such as

14 flu or yellow fever or measles, mumps, rubella.

15 This appears to be due to the presence of

16 defective non-infectious particles. There are

17 sequences from EAV and ALV both in these things, a

18 ratio of about nine to one as I understand it. It

19 does seem to me that you are not really quite sure

20 what the AV sequence is in there and what ALV sequence

21 is in there. It's probably going to vary from chicken

22 to chicken in so far as these chickens have not been

23 bred. In other words, every egg is a new experiment.

24 You are really not quite sure what you are dealing

25 with in that. I think that is quite an unfortunate


1 position to be in. I'm not sure how you control it.

I'm not sure what "reverse transcriptase" is. It doesn't sound good and the doctor explained it's involved with chicken cell grown vaccines: flu, yellow fever, measels, mumps and rubella. As he said, "In other words, every egg is a new experiment. You are really not quite sure what you are dealing with in that. I think that is quite an unfortunate position to be in. I'm not sure how you control it."

It doesn't sound to me like any of these vaccines grown and harvested on living animal tissues or cadaveric tissues is controlled or understood very well. Of course I'm not a doctor, but I just read the words of one--he sounds concerned.

2                Finally, this is my last slide, and this

3 has to do with characterized cells. The issues that

4 I have been dealing with really have been to do with

5 primary cells and primary cell problems where the

6 virus comes in direct from the animal origin. I think

7 there is no doubt in my mind that that's the main

8 source of concern in terms of human health.

9 Nonetheless, there are clearly problems

10 which also arise with characterized cells and the

11 continuous cell lines, in particular. We have some

12 down here.

13 Now the regulatory authorities in the room

14 will be well aware of a large number of other examples

15 of this type which don't actually get published. I

16 think that's not so good. I think this stuff really

17 should be out there in the public literature.

Wow, "...a large number of other examples of this type which don't actually get published." A large number? How big a problem is this? Why don't they get published...

I'm glad to help out. I'm spreading the word here. You can count on me.

That was all the presentation of Dr. Minor. If you look at the index,

 I N D E X


Philip Minor, Ph.D. 4

James Robertson, Ph.D. 32

Jorg Schuepbach, M.D. 51

Jens Mayer, Ph.D. 66

Thomas Broker, Ph.D. 78

Neil Cashman, M.D. 102

Panel Discussion 129
Dr. Onions, Chair

John Sedivy, Ph.D. 176

Frits Fallaux, Ph.D. 199

Panel Discussion 212
Dr. Coffin, Chair

you see that it continues on for some time. I didn't read the rest. I'm going to. You might take a look at it too.

This is all public record. Not surprisingly, it is not the kind of thing that's included in the flu vaccine public service announcements I've seen recently. They're not talking about flu vaccines being produced from eggs that may or may not have viruses that may or may not be harmful to humans when injected into their blood streams that may or may not be transmitted vertically to the next generation. It just doesn't come up.

Maybe it should.


Bekki said...

Thank you for posting this. I didn't think I'd get the chance to slog through it, but... I did. I'm aghast.

I had whatever vaccines were routine in the 80s, and horribly allowed my daughter to be injected with the first three rounds of crap they insisted on in the late 90s... and my mother probably got some of that monkey virus polio vaccine... yikes. Just yikes.

They have no idea what they're doing... they admit to having no idea what they're doing... and yet they insist that we all blindly trust and let them experiment on us and our children. Yikes.

Laura said...

Thanks for slogging through it. I think it's terribly important for more and more people to know these things.

I agree it's shocking. They do readily admit in several places and in several ways that they don't know what they're doing.

The vaccine program embodies such a Victorian sensibility about the natural world and our ability to conquer it. They want to conquer it rather than try to work with it. It's absurd--germs and diseases and infections are everywhere. The stronger you are, the more your gut is teeming with healthy flora, the less germs and diseases and infections can get a foothold. There's no room.

Instead of helping to support this balance, they develop more and more bacterial vaccines (amongst others) where there is then serotype replacement--a different microbe fills the gap. So, you end up with antibiotic resistant superbugs...thanks vaccine program...

Thanks for reading and making it to the end!

HBAC_Mama said...

Thank you! I'm going to show this to my sister- her then 5 month old had seizures and almost died after the DTaP. My oldest son had allergies and then a seizure after the MMR and is now being assessed by the school district for behavior/sensory/ motor issues and so on-we no longer vaccinate- but it has been a struggle explaining why we don't believe the benefits outweigh the risks. You can't get any more clear than the meeting notes you posted... There are TOO MANY UNKNOWNS.

Laura said...

Everyone naturally assumes that because they are experts and they went to medical school they therefore they know what they're doing. They don't even know exactly how the immune system works. They readily admit this in several places.

I'm sorry to hear about your family's problems with vaccines. I understand the choice you made.

talula_fairie said...

Found this from your link on MDC.

You know, every now and then I start really feeling the pressure to vax and question my decision...then I read something like this and remember I made the right choice. I read it all and I think my jaw hit the floor. WOW.

Thank you for posting this!

Anonymous said...

The FDA links no longer work, just so you're aware.

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